Dave Glowacz: Tell me, what do you know about the so-called Do Not Hire issue?

John Kugler: The Do Not Hire issue, I mean we’ve known it’s been around and in past practice, the Do Not Hire was for people who lost certification due to cause, they were removed for cause, and basically there were people that, you know, were, were charged with criminal offenses, whether it was drugs, sexual contact with kids, or, or stealing or theft, so basically it was something very egregious, you went up on charges, they, they removed you from the classroom or your position and then actually they went to the state to remove your teaching certificate.

Dave Glowacz: When you say they, are you, who are you talking about?

John Kugler: The Chicago Public Schools.

Dave Glowacz: Okay.

John Kugler: The board of education: they. That’s what the past practice and policy that we know of in the union, that people who got on the Do Not Hire list did something egregious against the Employee Discipline Code and were brought up on charges, went through some due process. They were removed from the teaching position, and then there was state hearings through the state board of education to remove their teaching certificate.

Dave Glowacz: And is any of this process reflected in the collective bargaining agreement with the CTU?

John Kugler: Not specifically to the Do Not Hire list. There’s nothing in our collective bargaining agreement regarding the Do Not Hire list.  There is procedures to remove a teacher or, or a union member from their position, a due process, and it’s called the E3 process. Now there’s also, if it’s so egregious, then it can be, you know, a fast track, I mean, if it’s murder or rapes and things like them, they can terminate you for cause quite quicker but I don’t think nobody’s going to argue that case, you know. And we knew there was this list, we never had this list, we don’t know about, I mean—it’s been said you’re on the Do Not Hire list, that’s what we’ve known about it . . . and that’s the perception of everyone in this system, okay, yeah, we understand, if you do something wrong that hurts kids or damages the, their school environment then, all right, you shouldn’t be working in there. We all agree. We all have kids and care about children, we don’t want someone that can hurt kids in schools, or that steals from the school building or school district. So we all agree on that, that there is a need for that.

But one of the discussions that’s starting to been happening is why do we need this list because if your certification is stripped from the state, or if you have a criminal record, where there’s drugs or violence or certain types of theft, or sexual conduct with a, with a student, then you would already be banned from teaching in, in the school district by its own board policies and rules

Dave Glowacz: And had, do you have any evidence from teachers that they’re . . . been given a Do Not Hire classification?

John Kugler: Oh yeah, sure, I have a letter saying you’re on the Do Not Hire list.

Dave Glowacz: And it actually says that term?

John Kugler: Yes. Then there’s another term they use—a not . . . I don’t have the file in front of me but basically it says, you’re not to be hired again. You’re on the Do Not Hire list.

Dave Glowacz: And do you know why they’re making these classifications for something that’s [laughs] not egregious

John Kugler: We don’t know.

Dave Glowacz: Did the letters explain?

John Kugler: We don’t know. There is no policies or procedures that we know of. One of the more troubling things, and I, I don’t know if you heard about this, is that new teachers are getting this classification, young teachers in the system, probationary appointed teachers, if they’re not renewed twice.

CPS, it’s three years to become tenured, so it’s three years you’re on probation. So within those three years, all kinds of things can happen. They—you know, you don’t get along with the principal, or something happens at the school, whatever, and then they don’t renew you so now you find another job in another school. And say this year came along and there was this whole or supposed budget crisis, you know, or it’s whatever they’ve created this year, and they’ve laid you off or non-renewed you again this year, so that would be two non-renewals.

And we just got an email from somebody, and, I guess it’s a new policy instated, that we don’t know nothing about it, that if a probationary teacher, non-renewed twice in the three years that they’re a probationary teacher, they get a Do Not Hire on their jacket or their record. But the problem with that is, David, that these are brand new teachers. This is somebody who is 25, 26 years old, just went through school, just got certified, basically they’re blacklisted from working in the district in all of Chicago, period. They can never work in the city of Chicago, again, according to CPS. So, basically, this is a modern-day blacklist.

Dave Glowacz: Teachers have also reported that in some cases their evaluations have been changed to lower ratings than they actually were given by their principals. Do you know where that shows up?

John Kugler: There’s a system internally and we’re investigating. That’s another whole separate case because if you get so many unsatisfactories then they can start working on terminating you out of the system and then also that’s part of a hiring process. Whenever you go to a district, they ask you what was your evaluations. I recall looking at multiple applications; you’re online, they say, "Were you ever deemed unsatisfactory by the system?" So this is part of another way of labeling you . . . and, and the unsatisfactory label in CPS, actually there’s a procedure for it, there’s a strict procedure for it, it’s part of the bargaining agreement, if it’s not followed, then it’s a violation of the contract, and that has to be rescinded, that unsatisfactory.

Dave Glowacz: And this whole idea of CPS changing teachers’ records, do you know how they might be doing that, and who might be doing that?

John Kugler: If it’s computerized, it’s pretty easy. I mean, I did an investigation of grade tampering over down in Hyde Park, I also did an attendance tampering story, I mean, basically with a computerized system, you can tamper with anything when it’s computerized, especially when it goes to some central location, they can do whatever they please and, and they override things that are in the computer, pretty easily.

Dave Glowacz: So, do you have an opinion about why they would do that?

John Kugler: My opinion, there’s two things. One, to instill fear in teachers that we can do this to you, so you all should behave, listen to us, and don’t rock the boat. Second of things is, is to get rid of some teachers and put other people in. I mean, basically, it’s reducing the force, right, a RIF, reduction in force. I mean, we’re fighting the lay-offs through this stated budget crisis, which we’ve shown there is no budget crisis, so they need to develop different systems to get rid of teachers, tenured teachers, or teachers on the system, so they can’t come back.